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Ep. 49 Punch Fear in the Face – How To Do It Anyway
Punch Fear in the Face – How To Do It Anyway
We all do it, we have grand ideas, and then we talk ourselves right out of it. What if I fail? What if I embarrass myself? What will they think? What if, what if, what if… You have to break the cycle.
Torie Mathis and her cohost Sean discuss how they pushed through failure, embarrassment, and judgey-ass family and friends. You can do hard things.
What’ we’ll cover:
How the fear of failure can be debilitating
How to press of through the fear Fostering a Figure it Out Attitude
The dangers of Expectations Dealing with Judgey People
Not Caring What People Think
What to do after you Fail
What to do if you don’t like where you end up
Constant Contact https://toriemathis.com/constantcontact
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Listen or watch the full episode below:
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION –
(transcription is auto-generated)
[00:00:00] Torie: I think we come up with all this stuff in our head and make things to be like, it’s, it’s gonna be so bad. You guys, you can handle big things.
Hey, welcome to smart AF on your host Torie Mathis. We have got a great show for you today, so let’s get started. Hey guys welcome to the show. I’m your host and this is my buddy Sean Mathis.
[00:00:29] Sean: Hello.
[00:00:30] Torie: Have you ever been scared? What this is all screwed up.
It was so good. Hey guys, you ever scared? You’re going to screw up. So you decide I’m just going to screw this up.
[00:00:55] Sean: is perfect for what we want to talk about.
[00:00:59] Torie: I didn’t plan this.
[00:01:00] Sean: That’s awesome.
[00:01:03] Torie: Okay. I’m going to spit it out. So people are so afraid of being judged. I’m afraid of being judged. Like I don’t want it. I am afraid of screwing up. I don’t want to screw up. I want to do a good job. And so that fear can be so crippling. Like you’re so scared that something bad is going to happen, that something is going to go wrong. That like you stop yourself before you even start, man. How long did I say I was going to make videos? How many videos did I make? I made like five or six and I never showed them to anybody. That’s what happens.
So you guys we’ve been through it totally now. And we just did this world, record. And, you know, they made it really, really hard with the things that they required. This was a big deal. It was a really big project. It was bigger than we ever could have imagined. And you know, we’re pretty, we’re pretty good at taking on really big things and you guys stuff always going to happen. There’s going to be things that go wrong. You’re going to make mistakes. You try to minimize the mistakes. Like how many times those I like, okay, what’s the worst thing that could happen? Like how do we, like, what’s the worst thing that could happen, you know? And kind of figure out like what would happen.
Okay. Like what’s the worst thing that could happen. Somebody go give you look stupid. Well, I don’t care really about that actually. You know, if it does happen, you’re like whatever, who are these people? Like making videos, you know, people could say, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Well, maybe I don’t know who cares.
Like really what’s the worst thing that you could embarrass yourself. I embarrass myself all the time. Like, I don’t really care about that either. Maybe you’re not going to like. I don’t care. Like when you really think about it, like the worst thing that can happen really isn’t that bad. And I think we come up with all this stuff in our head and make things to be like, it’s, it’s going to be so bad. You guys, you can handle big things.
[00:02:58] Sean: I think it’s just a way for people to talk themselves out of actually doing this. Yeah. Like it’s really easy to psych yourself out and then just never did it. That’s why there’s all kinds of books and podcasts and all kinds of things. It’s just ways of motivating somebody to get out there and do it.
All you got to do is do it. It sounds so simple. But when that voice in your head is just constantly, but what if this happens or what if this happens or you’re not good enough for it? It gets real. You’re right. I’ll do it tomorrow.
[00:03:32] Torie: Know the craziest part is like everything in this that we thought was bad that could happen. Like none of that stuff happened. It was other stuff like you can’t plan for it could happen because some of the things that we thought like could happen, like those things didn’t even matter, like things that we worked a whole bunch of time on and tried to make sure they were perfect and worded these things.
Like nobody, even like, we didn’t even use that. So all of this time worrying about things and thinking of what could have happened. Like a lot of it is wasted time because no matter what something is going to happen. And I know for our kids, like that’s hard. It didn’t work out perfect. We shouldn’t have done it with the world record.
Like things like our parade ended up being separated. Like some of the people might not count for the the Guinness world record. It doesn’t matter. Like it’s okay. That it wasn’t perfect. That the whole point of doing things are not to be perfect. And the amazing amount of experience that we have learned screwing shit up. Like you can’t buy that.
[00:04:42] Sean: And it goes across the board, you know, there’d be no museum if I didn’t just say, okay, let’s, let’s do it. And I almost didn’t and it took Torie to, to actually be like, no, Yeah, we’re ready for the rest of our lives. If we don’t just actually go for it this out, right. You, you could have went and got some jobs and got a steady paycheck instead of being like, Nope, I’m going to try to do this myself and had a couple of kids in the middle of all of it.
So yeah, it’s. Yeah, it seems hard, but it really isn’t. It’s like walking one foot, the other foot and you just, you just keep going with the speed at which you go may vary, but you you’re going to keep moving forward.
[00:05:29] Torie: I found that I think the worst thing is expectation. Yes. You know, that is the worst thing. Like you are better to expect nothing. Like, you know, you’ve done it. You go through these scenarios in your head of like, when it’s going to happen, like, okay, what’s going to happen at this time. What do I do if this happens? And then you start to, to like build this whole entire imaginary event before it’s even happened.
Then you have like how you want it to happen or how you think it’s going to happen in your head. You get there and it’s not what you thought it was going to be like. That is the worst thing that you could do. We just went through this with our daughter, with piano lessons. She had this built up what she thought piano lessons were going to be.
She had asked for them for months. And I was, I knew that like, it was not going to go well, she’s so shy with this stuff. And we tried piano lessons once before, and she freaked out during the middle and didn’t say anything and left the lesson. So I made her wait a long time. So she finally went and again, it like, did she have this whole, like, I don’t know if she had watched videos of lessons or like something she thought it was just going to, like music was going to flow out of her fingers. Like, I don’t know.
[00:06:50] Sean: So I just want to know. And I was like, she thinks she’s going to open that piano led and just like, just, it was Beethoven was going to come out and it’s got the perfect.
[00:06:57] Torie: And you know, our kids, like, they catch onto a lot of stuff really quick. And so I think when things don’t catch on quick, like they’re like, whoa, shouldn’t be doing this. Cause it’s hard. Yeah. Like trying to tell them that doing hard things is important. Like, if you’re a kid doing tough stuff is like, that’s how you learn messing stuff up that’s how you learn. Yeah.
[00:07:18] Sean: Most kids can’t just get out there and ride a bike on two wheels. They need to put their feet down or they need those training wheels. It’s only after practicing a little bit that they can pick their feet up and take those wheels off. And then, and then they get it and it’s just like any of this kind of stuff, you know what you use it, you’re not a business owner, an entrepreneur until you become one.
And then once you do it, you just keep getting better at it.
[00:07:43] Torie: And it’s like, I think there is no like handbook of like on day one, you do this, like you’re just in for a wild ride.
[00:07:49] Sean: Well, actually there are parenting books. This is how it is. This is how it is. And then this shit’s not accurate. It might’ve been an accurate for the author. But that’s not the way it is. Right? So, I mean, you re read that kind of stuff, get the, you know, whatever it is they’re saying out of it, that’s like any other motivational speaker or whatever, whoever you want to listen to, or to watch you can’t take every word they say verbatim and, and apply it to your life.
You just absorb what they’re saying. See if anything resonates with you. If you can apply. But even then it doesn’t mean that it’s going to work for you or, you know, it just, it can’t, you have to believe so. Probably not.
[00:08:35] Torie: But that’s how you figure it out. Like that’s the only way to figure it out. You got to screw stuff up and not be afraid to screw stuff up. Like if you just go into stuff going, I know it’s going to be a hot mess. I’m going to do my best. Okay. You can’t really expect perfection or things to go perfect. Especially if you’ve never done it before. And you guys, none of us have done this before and I’ve talked about it in other videos, like nobody gave us permission to do that Guinness world record.
Nobody said, Sean Mathis, you may do it. Nobody gave us permission. We just decided to go for it. We had no idea how to we just one step in front of the other, figured it out.
[00:09:19] Sean: Never done again, this record before never organized a parade before never organized an event with that many people actually involved in it before.
[00:09:30] Torie: Especially like at a location. That’s not our own, like we’ve done events at the museum, but we have control that’s our space.
[00:09:38] Sean: Didn’t know anybody. That ended up being major parts of the event that made it even possible. We didn’t know any of them prior to doing this. So, I mean, we, again, that, that was a super easy one to be like, no, We can’t do this. I mean, how do we do this? How do we, how do we, how do we do any of it? There’s no way of knowing.
[00:10:03] Torie: But there is no way to preemptively make it perfect. Like if you’re waiting to figure out like that perfect time you know, that you think that music’s going to come out of your fingers, like that’s not gonna happen. Like you have to really jump in it before you’re ready.
[00:10:23] Sean: Well, that didn’t work and had move on it. But if it did work then awesome, where if you, you can get something out of it, even if it’s not what you originally thought that you got something it’s it’s like, you know, When we talk about not going anywhere and we’re just at home working or doing whatever the case may be.
But then we’ve turned around and then we do go out somewhere and we go to an event or something, and then we come back and we’re like, oh, we should probably do that more often because we want to meeting so many people. And the ended up having connections, just because we went and did something that doesn’t come naturally comfortable for either one of us.
I don’t necessarily enjoy it depending on what it is. But ultimately every single time, it’s literally, it’s just doing something, we’re just doing it. And I mean, there’s, there’s a definite benefit to it.
[00:11:15] Torie: Yeah. I think with like the, the Guinness thing, like as long as everybody was safe, like, let’s keep everybody safe. Like that was obviously. Yeah, you can’t wing that. But once we move beyond that, like anything else, like if some people didn’t get registered, like that’s okay. Like if we didn’t count people, right. Like, you know what, all this stuff, like, it doesn’t really matter. But we got to try to do it.
[00:11:36] Sean: Total failure. Well, that didn’t work. We can either. Well, we’re going to be like, nah, I’m good.
[00:11:42] Torie: But I would never say like, we suck, oh, that didn’t work. We suck. Like, no, like we don’t suck. Cause we did it. Like most people, you know, you can’t let that fear stop you from doing what you want to do. And I think that acting quick is part of that.
Once you get that idea, do the first step to make it happen. Like, don’t start getting in your head and start making up these fake things. Like, it’s not real. You guys, you can’t, you can’t play out these things in your head and think that that’s how it’s going to go, because that’s just setting up these expectations that are not going to be accurate.
You have to actually get out there and start putting in the work to figure out how to make it work. You cannot learn to swim by reading a book. You have to get wet. So the quicker, you know, that you can do it. You know, Sean found the Guinness world record and thought and was like across the table, Hey Torie it’s only 145. I think we could do that. Like, hell yeah, we could do that. And immediately you went and started the process.
[00:12:49] Sean: Hours the application was submitted and we were already moving forward.
[00:12:53] Torie: We’re doing it now. We don’t know what the hell we’re doing, but we’re doing it.
[00:12:56] Sean: And then, and then I hit a wall and had to go this way and then hit another wall. And it had to go this way. And it was, I mean, all the way until, until the end. And we didn’t even have a permit to actually do the parade until days before the parade, like we had the approval, but we didn’t. I mean, it was still possible that they were like, ah, no, actually we don’t think is a good idea.
Did it wasn’t we’re not like, Hey, look, we’re gonna hold off on this attempt until we’ve got all of our boxes checked. Now, let’s just see how far we can get it. And if we can’t get all the way then of that was a good effort.
[00:13:33] Torie: You know what it reminds me of. Okay. So we’re from the west coast originally. We’ve both been in the military. We’ve moved all over them. But when we had never really been to the south, and so we, when we originally moved to this side of the country, we moved to North Carolina and we went and took a day trip to that sliding rock. Do you remember that? We drove hours to the sliding rock and we were going to slide down the rock into the river.
And you guys, we thought like a half hour from there. The clouds came in. We got like 10 minutes from there, lightning. I mean, it was this humongous storm. And what did we do? We turned around and we went home. Now, if you’ve never been to the south, you may think, well, that makes sense. You can’t go slide down a rock when it’s raining.
But the thing about the rain here is that it may happen. It may not happen. You never know. They say a hundred percent they’re liars don’t believe them. They know nothing. The day of the Tesla parade, it was supposed to rain. And a week before it said 90% all day, we could have canceled that shit. Oh, it might rain.
We should probably cancel the parade and reschedule it. That’s it didn’t rain. You guys was beautiful. Fantastic. We could have worried. Do you know how much worry we would have had if we would have like, put so much into the fact that it might have rained and turned around and went all the way home, it didn’t slide down the rock.
Like we’ve learned our lesson on that. Like, but so many things are like that you think there’s a chance of something bad happening. So you turn around and leave.
[00:15:12] Sean: Like the most stressful things for the museum for any of the car shows that we do that, that rain. I mean, it’s a major factor, you know, I, it’s easier to probably say no let’s not do any car shows because we can’t predict the weather. We can’t predict the weather. We had a good streak there for awhile, whether it was perfect all the time and this year, it wasn’t, it didn’t completely ruin the show though. It wasn’t as nice as it normally.
[00:15:44] Torie: You know what the, it rained it, that shelf, so many people still showed up. Like, I know what shit happened. Like the band didn’t show up that we had music plans. Like they didn’t show up that ruin the day. Like it was okay. Still. Like it was okay.
[00:15:59] Sean: A lot of people they understand. I think a lot of people that realize, Hey, there’s a lot of work that goes involved in whatever it is you’re doing and they understand things aren’t always perfect. On the flip side, there are assholes out there that they may or may not understand. But they want to complain.
[00:16:18] Torie: You know what? Th those guys will always complain who cares. They will find somebody in a bitch about they will, everything. How many times have we gotten emails back saying, you guys can’t spell, you’ve spelled this one word wrong.
[00:16:33] Sean: It happens. We always say it’s perfect. I try my best to have it makes sense and not have errors in it. If it does. What do you, I mean, what do you want me to do? I’ve already gone. I can’t, I can’t change it.
[00:16:51] Torie: And should you not send emails out because you might have something spelled wrong in there. There might be a grammatical error and somebody might point it out. You guys are going to point it out. Anyway, they’re going to point out everything. They’re going to misconstrue what you say. Like, it doesn’t matter. You gotta, you gotta get over that hump of caring what people.
[00:17:10] Sean: When I get those emails and they, they want to correct stuff on me. I think about it a little bit more on the next one. And I’m like, oh, I remember that. Then dude told me I suck at spelling and make sure I correct this. And so the next one I’m like, all right, you know, I spelled patients, right. Instead of patients, you know, it’s easy stuff. It’s stuff I don’t even see really like, it, it doesn’t matter to me that much.
[00:17:36] Torie: It’s little teeny things. And no matter what. Somebody is going to think you’re stupid for it. Somebody is going to say something every single time. You could do the greatest job in the world. And somebody is going to be very upset.
[00:17:49] Sean: You can have fantastic food and someone is still going to hate it. You know, I can ask somebody to come into the museum and absolutely love it and spend an hour and a half looking at everything. And the very next person leaves in 10 minutes and it’s like that wasn’t worth it. I’m going, it crushes me still. Because I think that they should like it.
[00:18:06] Torie: But you can’t have like, your heart can’t be crushed.
[00:18:08] Sean: Like I know, but you know, if that’s, that’s their opinion and it’s, it’s fine. But like, we have a ton of people in this world, like, don’t do it to please them.
[00:18:18] Torie: You don’t have to make everybody your people. Like if people. I don’t like what you’re doing. Like there’s going to be other people that really do like what you’re doing. Like you can’t let fear or expectations get in the way of doing anything that you want. And I think that’s one thing. Like if I could get that through to those kids, Like, I will be so happy because there’s so many possibilities for everybody.
You just have to, you, you look at those people and you’re like, man, how did they get all that? How did they do all that? You guys are just, they just do it. You got one foot, one foot, one foot and not be afraid of every little thing that may or may not happen.
[00:18:58] Sean: Here’s a good example. Tell me, Sean Mathis. Remember when. Yeah, we wanted a boat. Why? Because we lived in what’d they call it lake life area right there. Not on the lake. Not quite yet at that time. But super close and everything in that area was all about the lake. And I’m like, there’s no, there was no area to like, just go and enjoy the lake you had to.
[00:19:22] Torie: If you wanted to be on the lake, you had to live on the lake.
[00:19:27] Sean: So we didn’t live on the lake. So we had to. Now I’m the type of guy. I do a lot of research on this kind of stuff. So we researched a ton of boats, did all kinds of things, ultimately found a boat that we wanted to get. We were told by all kinds of people, that was a terrible idea. And I guarantee you’ve heard the saying, you know, happiest day and it’s garbage. Right. Yeah.
[00:19:56] Torie: So just in case you have not heard the saying, what is the same?
[00:20:02] Sean: The happiest day of your life is when you buy a boat and when you sell a boat, I disagree. I disagree 100%. I actually was a little sad when we bought the boat. Cause it shit was expensive.
[00:20:16] Torie: I didn’t think that’s where you were going. I was happy when we all, it was cool though.
[00:20:21] Sean: It was expensive. But we, I mean, it was awesome the entire time. And the thing is it’s like, that was our first boat. Yeah. And we didn’t just go and get like a crappy little boat that were like, I was running into berms and all kinds of stuff.
[00:20:37] Torie: We didn’t get like a used pontoon.
[00:20:39] Sean: It was a big boat and it was, I mean, it was cool and it was black. We had never driven a boat. We had never taken a boat off of us. So we had issues throughout the life of having this brand new. Yeah, I can only imagine the issues we would add. If it was a used boat.
[00:20:57] Torie: I could see that people probably get divorced over loading. Like these are times when I knew we were meant to be.
[00:21:07] Sean: To get that boat back up on the, on the trailer.
[00:21:10] Torie: Yeah. I talked to him out in the south that the storms come in, he come in so fast, like trying to get a boat back on a trailer when the wind is blowing.
[00:21:19] Sean: So it was a, a single hole in the front and dual pontoon in the back. And it was, it was a all fibers. But the top was like a pontoon boat, but the trailer had like these rails that you had to get through the middle and then it had the resting pods for the pod things in the back of the boat. So you had to get it on just right. And the book’s super long and it was just like wood.
And one of the damn thing broke on us and busted it all out of the trailer. I mean, we wound up having to leave it and then go get the boat repaired. Shit. What else? We had one, we didn’t have the key on correctly and the boat. Wouldn’t start again while we were parked in a coat. Oh my gosh. I forgot about that.
[00:22:10] Torie: We had, we had kids, we had everybody’s kids on the boat.
[00:22:14] Sean: Dragging the boat to the edge.
[00:22:16] Torie: We just didn’t know. We had to turn the key to those. I don’t know how the hell that happened. It was something like emergency, like thing. Like, I don’t know, malaria. It’s like, shit’s going to happen, but you know what? If we had the best time with that damn boat, right?
We had a great time. And you know what? It was not the best day when we sold our boat. Like we sold it because we moved away from the lake and you know, the kids
[00:22:42] Sean: weren’t so sold because we moved onto the lake and the kids were no longer using the boat.
[00:22:46] Torie: We were just wondering the double dark, and then the kids didn’t want to wear life best anymore.
But we, you know, we did end up moving away from the lake, but we went out in style you guys, we didn’t just sell.
[00:22:58] Sean: We did watch the episode of boat buyers, Morrisville edition. It’s the black widow boat that does not get chosen.
[00:23:07] Torie: Because kids should not be on a black. Oh my goodness.
[00:23:11] Sean: It turns out that people on that show, they aren’t already purchased their boat. Our boat was just the one that was like that. But you could have had this one looked like a Batmobile.
[00:23:19] Torie: You guys, reality TV is not real.
[00:23:22] Sean: But after that, Selling it to a guy in Washington, Washington state, Washington state. So, and I mean, he was happy with it. We got our usage out of it. And somebody else gets to enjoy it and I wouldn’t, but you know what we could have, we could have been like, no, they all say we shouldn’t have a boat. We don’t know what we’re doing.
[00:23:40] Torie: You know what? We didn’t know what we were doing. That damn boat was so much fun.
[00:23:44] Sean: I don’t really know a whole lot about. Why it was so hard to anchor the damn thing. It seemed like it wanted to move all the time.
[00:23:56] Torie: We didn’t divorce trying to put it on the trailer. Crazy down, but like seriously, if we would have listened to all those people that told us we were stupid, we wouldn’t have had these fantastic years with a boat.
And then we wouldn’t have moved to the house that we had a dock that the kids got to jump off of and swing off of like. Yeah, you can’t listen to people.
[00:24:19] Sean: And then we’re, we’re done with the lake and all that kind of stuff and moved on from there and don’t look back.
[00:24:24] Torie: No, we didn’t lose money on the boat. We went out and style. We ended up with the boat on TV.
[00:24:29] Sean: Like, and the thing is before the boat, it was a travel trailer. When we lived in Idaho, we, it was camping in the mountains and have a travel trailer and haul that thing all the way to the east coast until we took it out one. And that Southern torrential downpour came you.
[00:24:46] Torie: Guys when it rains. All the bugs want to go inside.
[00:24:49] Sean: And there’s a lot of bugs covered everything in these gigantic spiders and then ruined stuff that was all over the place. All of our family that came when their tents and stuff all came inside the trailer with us, or they left and not to mention. Like the area that we were camping in was near this lake that we bought the boat to go into, but it looked all the same as it did down by our house. It wasn’t camping.
[00:25:16] Torie: When we lived on the west coast, we were like escaping the city. To go to the woods when we moved in onto the south and onto the east coast, like the winds are everywhere here. So we camping like really like were like, why would we camp like, our backyard is beautiful. Like we’re already in like this type of environment, just right where we live.
Yeah, the bug. So yeah, we did talk about pivot. Like we were campers now we’re builders.
[00:25:41] Sean: Easy breezy, never owned a travel trailer before never owned a boat before, but we didn’t let it stop us. And it shouldn’t, you shouldn’t let any of this kind of stuff stop you either. If there’s something you want to do, go do it.
Worst case scenario, you fail, then you either try again or you don’t, maybe you didn’t enjoy it. Maybe you do it you succeed. But then you find out that you actually, it makes you miserable. Would you keep doing it? I wouldn’t stop.
[00:26:12] Torie: Every once in while we do find some stuff like, like even the camping, like we weren’t like, well, we bought a trailer, so we’re campers anyways. No, we were like, you know, Let’s figure out how to do something else because this isn’t working out now that we’re on this side of the country and you know what, that’s fine changing is fine. You know what? We figured it out. Why? Because we will always figure.
[00:26:30] Sean: I’d still go camping. I just don’t want to go camping over here because it’s all in.
It’s all the same. Like if we went back to the west coast and went to those bounds, I’d be all for it. We’re not there. So it’s fine. Just keep moving along and keep stepping forward.
[00:26:44] Torie: Absolutely. So no fear. Don’t let it stop you expectations. Don’t let them stop you screwing up don’t let it stop you. Like we’re all gonna screw up every single one.
Me Sean we’re going to screw up. And it’s usually the people that are going to say something are the ones that are too scared to get out there and do it themselves. So, you know, I would rather push myself and join the ones that are doing it that are out there trying to do big things that are failing forward.
[00:27:16] Sean: See people always talk about having goals, but they don’t specifically talk about goals as far as doing something specific you know, I want to break that Guinness world record. Why not just have the goal of breaking the Guinness world record and then taking those steps forward to meet that goal? If you don’t, it’s fine but if you have that expectation of, I need to beat that Guinness world record. And then when you don’t, you’re a complete miserable mess.
[00:27:45] Torie: Yeah. We never said our goal is to beat the record. It’s like our goal is to attempt a world record.
[00:27:51] Sean: It was just go for it. It’s it’s a goal to try to do it. So, you know, there’s, there was no expectation there that. It’s all or nothing, you know, we’re gonna, you know.
[00:28:01] Torie: Cause Riley thought we failed. He’s like, we might not have got it. We shouldn’t have done any of this. We wasted all of our time. Nobody. This was exactly how this, we did it. We succeeded. We had an amazing day. We had a lot of people come together. Did it go how we thought? No, but it never does. It never goes perfect. And that’s kind of what makes it fun.
[00:28:25] Sean: It was still impressive. It was still me and still glad that we did it.
[00:28:29] Torie: We didn’t cancel it because it might’ve rained was, you know what? It might, it might not, and it doesn’t matter. Can’t run from it. We learned our lesson.
We ran home once, but we’re not running home again. What’s the worst that happens. You get wet, like it’s all okay. So, if you liked this episode, subscribe like our channel, we’d really appreciate it. And we hope to see you on the next one. Thanks.
[00:28:54] Sean: Okay. To fail.
[00:28:58] Torie: You want to get smart tools to build your business go to getsmartaf.com.
About Digital Marketing Expert Torie Mathis
Torie Mathis helps entrepreneurs, like you, use digital marketing to grow your business without wasting time, money, or your sanity. She is a best-selling author, Army veteran, speaker + trainer, and your digital marketing coach. You don't need crazy tech skills, buckets of cash, or dedicated staff to market your business. In fact, you don't even need a lot of time. What you need is to be SMART.
Torie hosts SMART AF, a show for non-techy entrepreneurs looking to grow their business, with her husband Sean and is the creator of SMART AF Magazine. Learn from Torie at the Smart Arsenal and on her channel.
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